Here's another question on reproductive rights.

Today Feb 29 2024 IVF appears to be totally inaccessible in Alabama. I think this should resolve YES unless anyone can surface an example of an IVF provider there who is offering services since the Alabama state court ruling that embryos have all rights of personhood,

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/alabama-lawmakers-ivf-solution-patients-remain-limbo-107597430

@ClubmasterTransparent This article says there are eight Alabama IVF clinics that would have to close for the market to resolve yes.

ABC says three of the largest clinics have closed.

@Alice Thank you for clarifying. Please consider renaming the market to make it clear that the clinics have to close. By everything I have found, IVF services are totally inaccessible at this time because nowhere are they being actively provided.

@ClubmasterTransparent Oh, if that’s the case and services at all eight clinics are suspended at once, this market would resolve yes.

I reread the ABC article and am only seeing that three of the largest clinics aren’t offering IVF now. If you have a source that says all eight clinics stopped providing IVF please let me know!

@Alice @ClubmasterTransparent Using the CDC’s list of clinics (there may be more), it looks like a few are still offering IVF. Alabama Fertility Specialists, Innovative Fertility Specialists, and Alabama Center for Reproductive Medicine all posted on their Facebook pages stating they are continuing, and Huntsville Reproductive and Fertility Institute of North Alabama are mentioned continuing in this article. Looks like they continued offering IVF even with the risk, and, with new legislation poised to come out next week, it looks like Alabama will continue to offer IVF.

@Laya Thanks!

I personally am on the side of defending reproductive freedom, but I'm confused on the alternative position on this issue.

My understanding of the original, Catholic motivation for opposing all forms of abortion:

1. Assume that a zygote is imbued with a soul at conception

2. That zygote failing to develop sends that soul to judgment

3. Since that soul has not been baptized, it is sent to purgatory to be cleansed of its sins (humans accrue sin automatically because of Adam and Eve)

4. Ergo, frozen embryos have souls, and the Alabama ruling is justified because every embryo saved is a soul saved from purgatory

While this started as a Catholic position, the Protestants gladly co-opted this argument to say abortion kills babies.

Obviously the right has not reacted triumphantly in the wake of the Alabama Supreme Court ruling. Despite years of saying "life begins at conception," now that life has been defined as starting at conception, why is everyone backpedaling? Is this proof that the pro-life movement is built on a cynical sham, or am I missing something?

@VerySeriousPoster source on the Catholic position:

https://www.catholicherald.com/article/columns/straight-answers-do-aborted-children-go-to-heaven/

"We must uphold what our Lord taught concerning the necessity of Baptism: He said, “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter God’s kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit” (John 3:5). Therefore, the Catechism rightly asserts, “The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude” (#1257). Limbo, consequently, was a speculation as to what happened to the souls of children in particular who died and who through no fault of their own were not baptized. They did nothing to warrant eternal damnation in Hell, but because of Original Sin and the lack of Baptism they could not enter Heaven. Consequently, theologians, including St. Thomas Aquinas, posited there was a limbo, a place of benign existence. Nevertheless, the teaching of limbo still remains undefined and speculative."

@Alice For this to resolve 'Yes', does IVF need to be inaccessible in all states across the United States, or just in any one state?

@snazzlePop Any one state.